Jonathan Karl talked about his latest book, Retribution: Donald Trump and the Campaign That Changed America, on ABC News, where he is chief Washington correspondent.
Karl’s book, published Tuesday by Dutton, is an account of President Donald Trump’s 2024 campaign for the White House. The publisher says the book “reveals in surprising new detail how we got here, and what we can expect from American politics in the years to come.” It is Karl’s fourth book about Trump, following Front Row at the Trump Show; Betrayal: The Final Act of the Trump Show; and Tired of Winning: Donald Trump and the End of the Grand Old Party.
Karl told George Stephanopoulos that he has known Trump since 1994, and has talked to him frequently.
“I was talking to him regularly over the course of the campaign, during the fall, almost every few days,” he said. “I would pick up the phone and call him. Sometimes I would get a cold call from him out of the blue.”
Stephanopoulos noted that Karl had access to handwritten notes from former Vice President Mike Pence about the January 6, 2021, Capitol insurrection, which he writes about in the book.
“This is an incredible historical document,” Karl said. “It’s the notes that Pence took in real time when he spoke to Donald Trump at 11 in the morning on January 6. Trump was pressuring him to use his role as presiding over the certification of the election to overturn the presidential election. He writes what Trump said to him, and what he said in [response], and there’s a moment in the notes where you see Pence actually sketches what looks like an angry face emoji. Trump is telling him, You listen to the wrong people, and Pence is saying in response, I listen to my heart, I listen to my mind.”
Michael Schaub is a contributing writer.
